Romans 9
Romans 9
[00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome to God's Plan, your part, year two, where this year we're reading through and studying the entire New Testament, one chapter at a time. Thanks again for joining us in discovering God's plan and your part in it. Happy Monday! We are back and we are in chapter nine today of Romans. And I'll tell ya, I feel, I feel like today is like a pretty, I don't know, heavy ish chapter, if you will.
Uh, but before we get to the heaviness and kind of like extreme text here today, I do want to encourage you, we have been looking at our numbers over even just the last week and it's so encouraging. Uh, we see like these big spikes and I've said it before, but it seems like there's just a spike. It's like continued growth and it's really exciting.
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And again, if you would like to partner with us in that way, we would really appreciate it back to chapter nine and the heaviness of this chapter. I think it's heavy because it deals a lot with election. And like we talked about before the chapter, or before we even open this episode, you use the words, this is like a hot button, like, Oh my word.
There is, there's, there's a lot. I would say there's a very hot button issue in here dealing with Israel and then then [00:03:00] election is I don't know people are all over the map on election. I can I can tell you the election to me is extremely comforting. Um, but I know for many people it's not and I could talk about that for hours and I promise not to today.
So I would not say that this is a heavy chapter. I would stop. I would say it's a very important chapter. I think it's worth paying attention to. And I do want to add. Mhm. Always read God's word. It's way more powerful than our words. And you are allowed to read it and be like, that's not what that means.
Ryan, come on. What are you talking about? Um, I want you to read God's word way more than I want you to listen to me, which is kind of funny to say after an ad. Cause it's like, well, why don't I just read God's word then? Like that's fine. That's, that's why we started doing this. We just want to help people see what God's word says.
Um, I try not to put my spin on it, even though I'm sure I do. But anyway, So the two hot button things are who is Israel and what is election. Uh, if you're really want to just, I guess, I guess we'll just dive headfirst into this thing. Uh, if you look at verse six, [00:04:00] verse six, kind of like polishes out this, Case that Paul's making starting from verse one, um, about the Israelites and what role they have in God's plan, uh, who they're supposed to be.
And he makes a really pointed statement, um, verse six, but it is not as though the word of God has failed for not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring. But through, through. Isaac, shall your offspring be named. This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
I think it needs to be first determined too, like it's not like an actual like place we're talking about. It's not like a family line we're talking about. Israel is referring to the promise. That God made to Abraham. Okay, so yes and no. I mean, it is an actual place, right? Israel's a real place. In this instance, I'm talking.
[00:05:00] That's what makes this difficult. And that's what makes this tricky. Um, obviously Israel's a real place. Obviously Israel's very much in the news. Um, probably the last year or so. I mean, especially 7th massacre that started the whole war. Here, this is the, the name that Jacob is known by. Um, Like the 12 tribes come from and all that.
So it's complicated because today many people will say Israel's God chosen, God's chosen people. You need to support whatever they say, whatever they do. I was a very firm believer in that for a very long time until I went to Israel. And we talk often about going there. And I would say it was shocking to us about how many people did not care about following God.
I guess you could say the irony there is like, if God's people are Israel, like, the text kind of actually says that. Like, if you are within, like, God's chosen elect, you are [00:06:00] technically part of God's people. So there are, there are like, I would say there's like, there are like, there's like two or three prevailing ways of looking at this.
There are the people that say Israel is Israel. Like, it's like the geographic national place. They are God's chosen people. It doesn't matter what they do. They are God's elect and you have to support them because they are God's people. Okay. That would be point number one. Point number two is, uh, Israel today is the church that is people who believe and follow Jesus.
So Israel was like a actual nation that God used in different ways. Actually, they failed their mission over and over and over and over. They were not great examples of what it meant to follow God. And when Jesus came and the gospel here, I mean, in Romans, we see the gospel is going to Jews and to Gentiles.
Israel became the church. That is, God's chosen people became believers who follow God. That would be the second position. I would say the third position, which I'm probably in the third position [00:07:00] camp, is that there's definitely a blend of both. And I'm not saying that to be like in some kind of weird middle ground.
Um, there, there are promises to Israel that is a people that That God says he will keep those promises. However, God's covenants were contingent on obedience. And so like we need to be obedient to God. Paul is making the case here that, um, becoming God's chosen people has always been based on the promise and obedience to the promise.
And so, yes, God has a heart for his people. I think, yes, God has a plan for his people. I do not think they get a free pass when they're blatantly disobeying God and ignoring everything. Everything that he commands, uh, because honestly, like if you go to Israel today, many people will tell you that they hate Jesus.
They don't support Jesus. They don't appreciate Christians. That's a problem. Okay. Uh, and then on top of it, I think that those who are being obedient to God are God's chosen people. I think [00:08:00] in large part, that is the Christian church today. So if you want to pick a fight with me, there's a comment box.
There's an email box. I don't need the comment box. So I want to fight with me right now. Like, there's evidence. You said you kind of fall between the two of them. Mm hmm. And you would say that, like, God's people, there are definite promises that were given to God's people that were, like, straight up the Jewish people, Israel, yada yada.
What about when they left Egypt and the Egyptians that came along with them? Like, did they just not count in that? no. Because the promises were given to them, too. It's not instead of, it's as well as. So it's not that we're all going to be ignored on behalf of Israel. It's that I think just this, just like this text teaches, like God and those promises have been given to those Egyptians as well, a hundred percent, like, Oh, obedience is obedience.
Because I think I would say that it's just to then like, it's just to, so you, I mean, you would, those who have faith, that's what this chapter is alluding to. Yes. What I think is that I think God could, and I think it's likely, I'm always careful about end time stuff because. [00:09:00] There's so many different opinions on it.
Oh, we're going end times? What? Yeah, I mean this, the way you see this is very influential in how you see last things in end times. I think God almost certainly will draw people to himself that we are not expecting. I think that is exactly what this passage is talking about. I guess I'm just going to move on from your, you just can't wait to get past it.
I'm pretty much like sold on one. Let me say one more thing. It is important. It is important. And I know like when I, when I suggest either, or there's always people that get frustrated on either side of head conversations about this in my, in my own office at work, when I get asked these questions and it's like, okay, now everybody's on the same page here.
I understand that might bring up tension. It is important that you dig into this topic and. I think I would add to it is important that you don't ever give a blank slate to anyone that they can just do whatever they want and be God's people because being God's people has always, always, always been based on obedience in the promise.
Remember, we talked about the other day. Oh, actually, that was on God's whole [00:10:00] story. We talked about that the other day, but, um, God actually punishes his own people when they don't obey him. So, um, God himself has never just given a blank slate to any people group. He's always said, like, I will, um, if you follow me, I will bless you.
And if you come against me, I will curse you. That's always been his thing. And when he says all the way back to Abraham, like those who bless you, I will bless and those who curse you, I will curse. It's under the assumption that Abraham is going to be faithful to what God has called him to be faithful to.
So there you go. That's the Israel debate. Dig into it to your, for yourself. Look into what God has to say. Um, there we go. Oh my goodness. Okay. It's a huge topic. If we move from there, um, I would say I was definitely drawn to some of the things that they were talking about or that Paul was addressing and talking about specifically as it starts in verse 14, what should we say then?
Is there injustice on God's part? Essentially saying like. It doesn't matter if you're born into the faith. If [00:11:00] you're living by this, like, just fulfilling the law, that's not the same thing as having faith. Um, and same for like people who are without, like, without faith, but also not under. Like, they're not part of that family of Israel, um, they have to have faith as well.
So he's basically saying, like, is God being unjust? Like, why would he do this? And he says, by no means, for he says to Moses, and that caught my attention too, because he literally said this to Moses, um, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Like, it was established just the same then as it is now, too. Like, the whole idea of like, elect and not, correct? Like, that seems to me, like, pretty obvious from the point that he's making. And then it just kind of unfolds into like, all of these instances. He does a really cool word picture of like, um, when someone is crafting something with clay.
[00:12:00] Like, the clay doesn't just get to look up at the person creating it and saying, Hey! Don't you make me like that? Like, I actually like envisioned myself back in high school and we used to use the pottery wheels. It was my favorite. Um, like you, like the, the creator, like the, the potter is like intricately thinking of the ways that they want to mold and shape this clay.
And it doesn't always go the way you want it to, but you have an idea for it. And if you were just told, like, it just doesn't make sense. The clay would not be giving the demands. to the potter. It just doesn't make any sense. I'll tell you what's incredible is that in normal circumstances, the potter does not care at all about the clay.
The potter does not expect that the clay will respond. And our God cares deeply for us. And we have the opportunity to have relationship with God. I understand you could look at this passage and be like, that's not what the passage says. The passage says God does whatever he wants. And that is true. But we also know that God is incredibly relational and does desire relationship with us.
So you have to take these things together. [00:13:00] Well, and I also said earlier in verse 20, it says, but who are you? Oh man, to answer back to God. Well, what is molded say to its molder? Why have you made me like this? Has the Potter no right over the clay? Um, Essentially just giving that example a little bit more fleshed out.
Um, but what I think is so interesting, we were talking about this before the episode started, I would say that there are definitely people in my life that I would probably be like, man, like you don't get it. Like you don't have the faith. You also like. You don't really care about it, but I don't know that in like a year or two their life might get totally turned around and they actually were chosen by God all along and I had no idea because you had said earlier like We aren't the final judge.
So we don't know those things. Um, and so when you think about this stuff, I have often had like the dilemma in my mind of like, well, it's not fair, like it's not fair to that person because like they've gone through so much, but at the same time, I don't know that what this person might've gone through [00:14:00] 10 years ago could have actually been God's way of leading them to himself in a time that we haven't seen yet.
And there are so many stories like that. Yeah. And I think that is something really important to remember too, because like, He's not unjust. And even this, this is saying like some vessels are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction and others prepared for the riches of his glory and mercy. Like, but we don't know those things.
And I think looking around and being like, well, they're never going to experience it and they're never going to experience it. But I don't actually know that. Like I can't speak. Like, I don't know someone's heart. I don't know what God is doing within them. I don't know what he has prepared for them. And it's not fair for me to sit around and try to guess that either.
Um, on the same token, you were talking about something that we'll kind of like allude to tomorrow where it's not our job to just sit around and be like, well, I'm good. Like I've been chosen. I'm great. There's still work to be done. This is really important. If you hear this chapter and it frustrates you, don't [00:15:00] leave.
You have to listen to chapter 10 as well, Romans nine and Romans 10. You, you could actually make the case that they make competing points. They're not competing points. Um, they're actually really good companion points. And I'm not going to give that away until tomorrow. So you'll have to listen tomorrow.
Um, if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, I think you're probably pretty used to us talking about election and talking about how like God can do whatever God wants to do. And. In the past, that is something that has frustrated me. And I promise you that I'm in a place now where it actually genuinely comforts me.
And you said earlier, Jenny, about like, how's this even fair? Like, how's it fair that God can pick one person but not another person? And it wouldn't be fair if I was doing it. But God is free to do whatever he wants because all of us live under his authority and all of us live to give him glory. That's like the point and purpose of our lives.
You might disagree, but if you start to live in a way that is to glorify God, you will notice how much more fulfilled you feel. You might have pushback [00:16:00] at first, but it is actually the best and most rewarding way to live your life. Um, on this election point, um, I will say that, you know, Essentially what Jenny has already said, we don't know the full story.
We don't know what God is up to. And you get into a really dangerous place if you just assume you do know everything. And essentially what happens is people are like, well I'm elect. Obviously I'm elect. And it's like, you don't care about anybody else then. That's not allowed. You're not allowed to think that way.
And Romans 10 is going to help clarify that because we don't know what God is doing. And we have to assume that we don't have to assume we've been commanded to make sure that we take the gospel to the ends of the earth. It's up to God to decide what's going to happen with everybody. Before we close out with a, your part for today, I do want to just hit one more thing because it does kind of seem that this chapter circles back to Israel towards the very end.
And it's talking about the unbelief of Israel. And if you know anything about like most Jewish background, Jesus is typically not [00:17:00] respected. Okay. That's not usually a thing. Um, but what's so crazy here is that Paul circles around and goes right back to what is written in Isaiah. So, um, he's saying they did not pursue faith.
But, as if it were based on works. He's talking about that whole idea of the law again. Um, they have stumbled over the stumbling stone as it is written, Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense. I would say Jesus was definitely that to the people of the time. And whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
Like, how crazy is it that like, this idea of, You can't be saved by the law. Yeah. Like you have to put your faith in Jesus. You can't be saved by your genealogy. Right, you can't be saved if even if you are technically from like Israel, the line of Israel. That doesn't, that's not what's gonna cut it. It's so interesting.
That is what That even all the way back to Isaiah, he is telling them, this was prophesied long, long ago, that it would be offensive to you, [00:18:00] and this is what you actually need in order to attain life with God eternally. So let's fly here to a your part for today. I am so happy that God is in control and I am not.
Amen. And that is one of the comforting things of election because I have made so many mistakes in the past seven days, honestly, maybe even one day for me, that if I was in charge of ruling the universe, it would not be good for anybody. And so we can. Uh, find comfort in the fact that God is in control.
Um, stick around for chapter 10. He intends that salvation be offered to everyone, but at the same time, he does have those he has chosen and foreknown. And, uh, You know, it's, it's a little bit of a weaker argument to make that those that will be judged and will be utterly cast out. But we do know that there are those who will be judged and be utterly cast out.
So find comfort in knowing that you have a strong relationship with God, the creator of the [00:19:00] universe has right relationship with you. And you can be confident in that and know that he loves you and cares for you to start off your week this week. Uh, we'll be back again tomorrow. Uh, we'll see you then.
Thanks for joining today's episode of God's plan. Your part, as always, please consider partnering with us as we are a listener supported podcast that we hope to continue to grow with support from listeners. Just like you we've made it super easy to partner with us and you can support us by following the link in our show notes or our description.
You can support us with as little as 3 a month. Every little bit of this helps so much. And we're so thankful for your support with that in mind. Here's today's reading. Romans chapter 9. I am speaking the truth in Christ. I am not lying. My conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.
For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen, according to the flesh. They are Israelites and to them [00:20:00] belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, and the resurrection. The worship and the promises to them belong the patriarchs and from their race.
According to the flesh is the Christ who is God overall blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all who are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but through Isaac shall your offspring be named.
This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, But the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said. About this time next year I will return and Sarah shall have a son. And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls, she was [00:21:00] told, the older will serve the younger.
Forever. As it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means. For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. So then, it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
For the scripture says to Pharaoh, For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?
But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to the molder, Why have you made me like this? Has the potter no right over the clay to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, [00:22:00] desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of the glory of the vessels of mercy which He has prepared beforehand for glory?
Even us whom he has called, not from the Jews, only but also from the Gentiles. As indeed he says in Hosea, Those who were not my people I will call my people, and her who was not beloved I will call beloved. And in the very place where it was said to them, You are not my people, there they will be called sons of the living God.
And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved. For the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay. And as Isaiah predicted, If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.
What shall we say then? That Gentiles [00:23:00] who do not pursue righteousness have attained it? That is a righteousness that is by faith, but the Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law? Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith. But as if it were based on works, they have stumbled over the stumbling stone.
As it is written, Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, a rock of offense. And whoever believes in him will not be put to shame. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of God's Plan, Your Part. Don't forget you can find us on just about every social media platform. And YouTube, let us know what you thought of today's episode.
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We'll see you again [00:24:00] tomorrow.